In this episode, Tyler Turner and Jack Follman from Sports PAC-12 go over PAC-12 rosters and position groups.
Tyler Turner – @TurnerCast
Jack Follman – @jackfollman for @sportspac12
Tyler Turner 0:31
Welcome to the Tyler Turner show today’s date February first 2021. If you haven’t yet, please subscribe to all our channels, YouTube and Periscope iTunes. If you are on iTunes, please leave a review. That’ll be awesome. Visit us at the sports cast dotnet also follow us on Twitter at sports cast one and check out our app at the sports cast in the iOS App Store. Cam back here another week. I have another guest today working for sports Pac 12. JACK Folman. He came across this information he did way too early 2021 Top 25 he also did a preseason. Pretty 14 preseason for the PAC 12. How are you doing today? jack?
Jack Follman 1:16
Tyler Turner 1:17
So yeah, what’s kinda like boy back and forth off the subject lines? First and foremost. What was quickly? Because I’ve covered a lot last week and a couple more shows before that. What was your thoughts on this 2020 season back to off.
Jack Follman 1:37
And it was a as you expected going in? It was a weird season. I think you kind of got normalized things as they happened. Because you gotta remember, we were like, how late were we like, we didn’t think there was gonna be a season then we got one. And it was strange. You know, we had some teams, I think played as much as seven or eight games. And he had teams that played three or four. It was it was weird. And it was hard to read too much into it, in my opinion in some ways. And but then you got to read something to do it because you’re like, Well, this was what we got. And it was fun. I think we also hit a point to where we were just like, you know, we’re gonna get back to a football when it felt like it was taken away from us for so long. You really had to appreciate what you got no matter how. How weird and how unpredictable was because you didn’t know if sometimes if you were gonna get a game until it until it kicked off. That was another exciting part but not in a good way.
Tyler Turner 2:35
Yeah, I think it was kind of the same sentiment I had when I talked to my guests last week and sentiments my shows I’ve done just solo it. I just thought it was such a small sample size that you know yet to see online people Pickering of all my team was Washington number three and one and we want her division. But it’s like you played four games. And Arizona State played four games and Washington State played four games, there’s just thought there was such a small sample size for so many teams that it was just it really was like extremely difficult to pull a lot of data from this and be like, Oh, this team is substantially good. Or I mean Arizona is bad. But other than that.
Jack Follman 3:19
Tyler Turner 3:20
I mean even like Colorado like were they really good. I don’t know last two games they didn’t look very good. So I just thought it was one of those seasons that it was just kind of difficult to like glean a ton out of it. And I guess what there was a champion but the champion didn’t win their division. It was weird. And so yeah, I kind of saved sentiment as you I just it was just it was glad to or something but to glean a lot of absolutes from it, I think is darn near impossible. Now moving forwards into next season. One point I was looking at SP plus by Bill Conway. I don’t know if you know him. He works for ESPN.
Unknown Speaker 3:59
Tyler Turner 4:00
when he talks about returning production for teams next year. One thing that really popped out to me nationally, you see Okay, so we have UCLA is number two and returning to production Washington State is fifth. Oregon State seventh Utah eighth, Oregon nine, Arizona State 11, Colorado 12, Washington 15 Cal 20. In the top 20 of returning production, you have nine Pac 12 teams. So one blessing in disguise or something that you would not expect to take away but I guess it does make sense. And since only some teams played four or five, six games, the PAC 12 returns a lot next year, most of these teams come back pretty much intact. And like I said, of all the teams in college football, the PAC 12 returns the most production of any conference by significant margin, is that kind of what you gleaned in is that kind of what you expect. Especially since they played so few games.
Jack Follman 5:02
Yeah, definitely. To me, it seems like USC is the only team that’s really losing much. And
Tyler Turner 5:09
Stanford is 101.
Jack Follman 5:10
Stanford. Yeah. Stanford, the other one. But I kind of feel like they’re the teams that are really a factor up top. I think USC was the big one. And other than that, yeah, that’s that’s totally what I see is looking at forecasting next season. You’re like, other than USC, I think, kind of sliding back a bit. It looks like the same teams that were in contention last year, kind of in the same slot. Same thing. I just said, we know Arizona is not good. I have a sneaking suspicion Colorado or WSU might not be as good as some of those other teams. But yeah, you look at Oregon, Washington, Utah. UCLA is kind of a sneaky team. I think. Even those teams like Oregon State could sneak up on people the way they did. They did this year and not Arizona. Arizona State has some potential to so yeah, it’s gonna be pretty similar. It’s almost like we got like a practice season. For the most part, unless you’re really USC or Stanford. And even Stanford, I think kind of has like a little bit of the guys are losing I don’t think or they lost experience. But I don’t think it’s like they’re losing like USC where you’re like you’re losing a lot of really good players who made a big impact.
Tyler Turner 6:19
Yeah, I went when I was talking about my projections next year, USC was the one because I’m seeing them in some not too early polls that ESPN had them non nine, a 247. Sports had them like 12. And I was like, I don’t see that for USC next year, especially since clay Helton has not always achieved True Potential with the talent on the roster. With them losing so much production on I could definitely see and I don’t know if you think the same. I forgot what you had them in that way too early. But I could definitely see USC being a 75 team next year.
Jack Follman 6:57
Yeah, I definitely had them. Kind of like round number 20. If and I don’t have that much even that much confidence, confidence in them. I think that a lot of that has to do with how much nationally, when you look at their Oscars, as you said, and you’re like, there’s a lot of teams that just are restarting, unlike the PAC 12. And I think they’re getting a lot of pull for kadem slovis. But he I mean, he threw away the PAC 12 championship last time we watched him play. I don’t know if you’d really put that much. That was with a monitor St. Brown and Tyler bonds and a couple other players on this offensive line that are going to the NFL. Yeah, I don’t know where the confidence for USC is really coming from and talento Fargo who is literally their whole defense. Is it one of those guys who you see some times where he just literally completely changes the defense. He’s not like a guy who just plugs in. So yeah, I don’t I don’t have much confidence in USC especially because clay Helton is coaching This isn’t like, you know, a place where you’re, you don’t have Urban Meyer or Nick Saban? You know, reloading up there. It’s clay Helton. So big question mark. Again, it’s us he’s really of talent. If they’re not like, you know, like a team that build it up, and it’s gonna have to completely rebuild, but they’re not. I have some skepticism about USA.
Tyler Turner 8:19
Since you touched on the subject, while you did touch on the subject, which you mentioned his name. What What would you say? So dean’s office returning quarterback returning quarterback for the USC Trojans, what would you say overall about the quarterback position entry next season in the PAC 12. So if we’re going to specifically address that position, what is your opinion right now of the quarterback position?
Jack Follman 8:42
Yeah, it’s a wild card. It was a I think going into last year when you kind of had a changing of the guard with guys like Justin Herbert. taken off, you know, it’s, it’s kind of like, this year was a lot of guys to proving time and, uh, no one not that many guys stepped up. I mean, I think when you look to all Pac 12 I think slovis got a lot of he had a lot of accolades, but it was kind of because no one else really, was that that great. And, I mean, that was before the PAC 12 championship game, I think a lot and he just did not look good. He might have been hurt. I’m not sure. Yeah, it’s a question mark. And you have a lot of places like Oregon to where it’s like you don’t know who might be the starter, Stanford Davis Mills who actually quietly thought might have been the best quarterback in the PAC 12 lescure. Kind of shockingly left for the NFL. I didn’t expect that. Then. You had guys like get on Jaden Daniels and case garbers who I don’t think we’re as good as people expected them to be. So it is a massive question. Mark. You tell you a place like Utah where I don’t think you know have any idea what’s going to be the starter it’s, it’s wild. slovis should clearly be the number one guy going in, I think, despite his struggles, but other than that, there’s a lot of question marks.
Tyler Turner 9:57
Yeah. This is how it preface it I’d say there is a lot of question marks I did not think it was in this short weird season that was I didn’t think the quarterback play was very good. Um, but when I look at the quarterbacks that could be starting UCLA it’s probably Dorian Thompson Ramzan he will be a three year starter Washington State. Yeah. Jane delora. He did look good in a little tiny bit that he played. Oregon State I believe will be Tristan gebbia. I have quite a few questions about him. Utah, I believe will be Charlie Brewer the transfer from Baylor maybe generis Jackson from Texas. He was a top 100 guy coming out. He’s a guy that you could look for. Oregon, Oregon. That’s interesting. Tyler shuck did not look necessarily very good. He was pretty inconsistent. Anthony Brown who was a two year starter at Boston College. He came in and played at the end of the year. I thought it looked a little better. But then they sign Ty Thompson who’s a top 50 players a five star by rivals calm. He could be in the mix. I’m going to go brown Anthony Brown. He’s a fifth year senior. He started a couple years. I believe he’ll win it. We’ll see. Arizona State I go Jane Daniels. I personally think he’s a little overrated. I didn’t his freshman year, he had some moments where he looked good. But he also had some moments where he’s a pretty inconsistent passer. And remember he had some really good receivers like Brandon, I you can Frank Darby. So the fact that he didn’t really improve and you saw maybe they didn’t quite have those weapons on the outside. I don’t know. I think the jury is a little more out. I think he definitely got hyped up because a big victory he had over Oregon. And he had a very impressive performance, but I haven’t seen the consistency with him as a passer to say that he’s that guy in the PAC 12. Colorado I believe will be Sam Noire. Washington is another team I wasn’t particularly impressed with Dylan Morris all I was impressed. I never thought it was that I thought it was slightly overrated prospect. But they are bringing in sandefjord five star and it uses a tremendous prospect. I would not be shocked Sanders starting quarterback on Cal chase garbers he’s another guy that I’ve I think he’s a little bit limited as a as an overall quarterback. And then Arizona who is their reserves, reserves on score.
Jack Follman 12:17
Transfer now that thing Grand Canal who Yeah, looked Alright, it looks pretty good at times. But so I assume I wouldn’t be surprised if they bring in some sort of transfer.
Tyler Turner 12:27
They brought in the crews gunner crews from from Washington State did transfer in their starter probably
Jack Follman 12:33
probably. Okay. It’s hard. It’s hard to track with transfers. Now. Sometimes you were like, yeah, it’s gonna be some transfer. We don’t know yet. We don’t know yet.
Tyler Turner 12:43
They might even get another one. Oh, yes. He used to be keen on service. I actually love Jackson dark. He’s a top 50 guy designed. I think he’s gonna be a very quarterback for them. Get out of Utah. Miller moss is a top 100 guy. So I think they have some good freshmen. I think he’ll be slovis I’m kind of the ballpark view. I think so this is kind of overrated. He’s had some pretty bad performances when he’s played against better teams. He his freshman year he was really he had a really poor performance gets Oregon and a bad loss. He had poor performance gets here for Iowa until he got injured in the holiday bowl. He did not play well this year against Oregon. He really didn’t play very well against Arizona State open the year. I just think when when it’s better when you face a little better talent he can make some mistakes. Yeah, sorry. I really did not blind USC as you can tell right now, and they would need really good player from Keaton. slovis has some great receivers. We’ll see what they can do. Stanford I think you’ll be Tanner McGee former top 50 guy went on a Mormon mission came back but I there’s some talent if I were going to pick the Dark Horse In my opinion, to be I actually really liked Jean delora I think he also has a system under rolovich that is very it’s very favorable for good quarterback performance. It’s it gets the ball out quick so run and shoot style for a quarterback system. Offensive system so it’s very effective for quarterbacks put up good numbers. So maybe Jane delora is someone that I could I kind of like Charlie Brewer going from Baylor I think he’s a solid quarterback going into Utah you know, Utah is always going to be well disciplined, they’re going to do just the little things while they’re gonna run the ball well protect the quarterback well put their quarterback in good position. So he’s a guy and then the Oregon quarterbacks just gonna have I can show you at some point, but I do like this talent formula. Similar to 417 talent composite, Oregon is going to have the best roster based upon talent this year in the PAC 12 you’re gonna have a top 10 roster nationally. So just the fact that he’s gonna have so many on the offensive side of the ball. He’s at bringing back guys that are three four years starters and then there’s like three or four top 100 guys that are either freshmen or sophomores. I just think there’s gonna be a lot of talent that the schools want whoever’s a quarterback, I just don’t know what’s going to be who would you possibly Who’s your leading candidate to be a quarterback at Oregon next year?
Jack Follman 15:16
And that’s going to be an interesting one. Because, you know, you take someone like Anthony Brown, who I agree, I think did look better. When when you you put him in there over Chuck I, I like that. But then, you know, you got to play bigger picture to have like, you know, he’s at most, you’re gonna get one more a year out of them. Where do you invest in a guy like Thompson and say, Hey, he might not be quite as polished, you might, you might lose a game or two that you might would win with a veteran like brown. But you get that development out of a guy and you kind of build your team up around him. So I think, I think it’s either going to be brown, or it’s going to be Thompson. And they’re going to be like, Hey, we’re gonna commit to, you know, see what we can do this year, maybe? I think they so we were scheduled like they think they play at Ohio State next year. So maybe you throw brown out there against Ohio State. And if you win, or you look really good, and you say, Hey, we’re gonna ride this season out with him and see the best we could do. But if they lose or pay lose sight game, and you’re like, well, let’s see what he can do at Thompson. If I had to bet, I would say probably Brown. Just because as you said, I think too, they have a roster built to to win win the conference. So you might as well try to do that as opposed to, you know, really bank on a rebuild when, especially if a true freshman coming in, you can redshirt him, maybe even get him in in a few games and still redshirt him with the new with the new rules. That would probably be the best bet.
Tyler Turner 16:42
Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. Yeah, I think I think if, if it was a roster, probably only a couple rosters that really compete in the PAC 12 on the national level and four possible playoff, and Oregon’s one of them going into next season. If you look at the data that exploited the data from recent college football contests, that playoff contestants, they’re the only USC and Oregon’s going to have the roster talent that really could that would be the baseline kind of for the mean in recent seasons. And I just think with that possibility out there. I think you play the more experienced guy but if you were for instance Cal or you were Colorado I’d play Thompson yeah cuz it’s the future you’re building for but if you just because they had they have a team that could could make playoffs definitely win the conference. Um Yeah, I’d probably i’d playground because he’s gonna be experienced he means he’s basically a six year senior. get much more experienced than that. That’s Yeah. Okay, so we touched on quarterbacks I think we’re both kinda seem to be on the same thought pattern. Probably slovis is kind of but I think we both realized that he didn’t at times it has not really lived up to his his what his possible potential would be so the next position I guess I’m kind of kind of how See I do is I just do the like the past catchers do wide receivers and tight ends together. How do you see that across the board? What guys you see standing out which teams do you think probably has most impactful guys at that position?
Jack Follman 18:23
It’s not a strong year, this year. Looking ahead, kind of what I was doing those like all Pac 12 teams for for next year. I mean, you lost USC was clearly they had a nice group last year and they still have some nice pieces coming back and Drake, Drake London and brew McCoy. And there’s some young talent there no great Gary Bryan Jr. is a guy who might who might step up. So I think USC still kind of has it but it’s wide open. There’s not that many difference I think between a lot of the between the top group and the bottom group. I mean, there’s not a whole lot proven at receiver tight in in the conference at all. I mean, you look at even in groups like Utah has like a nice combo and like Britton covey who speaking of guys who’ve been in the conference forever, they have Brant Khalifa, tied in, that’s a nice combo there, but you’re really stringing together not a whole lot to really put out there and any of these teams, I like Stanford. Again, I was like, I was excited about Stanford. I thought Cb fiocco showed a lot I like Michael Wilson, but then c mu foco leads for the NFL. You know, WC has got that same group of guys that they they have that they’ve kind of like the guys who put up stats, but you’re like, How good are these players? You know, Oregon’s got a lot of young talented guys that are that are they’re bringing in that they’re kind of then they have the veteran guys who’ve been there for a long time like the Johnny Johnson’s the Jalen reds but you’d really want those younger guys to have to step up and be the be the go to guys there. So, but we just haven’t seen that same with Washington they’re kind of a similar thing where you’ve seen the young bigger recruits who haven’t really done it so I guess USC by default because I’m not really in love with anyone’s past catchers.
Tyler Turner 20:15
Well, so tougher tougher tight end. I would I like Kay Dalton I think he’s a very good and I like Brent key fee for trick Aidan from you, Washington. Break up from Utah. And Greg don’t don’t judge from
Jack Follman 20:36
there so I think we guys yeah,
Tyler Turner 20:38
yeah, I think those are three legitimate those guys could bought. I mean, first second, third team. I mean, does I think they’re three legitimate guys. I’ll probably play on Sundays. I think that’s a solid group at the tight end position. I do kind of agree with you. I think there is some with wide receiver I think there’s some guys with potential on it Bru McCoy on a former five star he has the potential on Troy Franklin for Oregon. He has the potential pumpkin akula if he can stay healthy for Washington Jalen McMillan. He’s in his second year. Johnny Wilson for Arizona State bunkley Shelton. I forget his first name from Arizona State. There are some guys that lija badgerys another guy for Arizona State there’s some guys are high rated recruits. I guess we just haven’t seen them. So if they can play to their potential if they can play to what the recruiting gurus the recruiting experts gave them for rating. I think you could have a really nice wide receiver group in the PAC 12 because of guys coming back, Caulfield straight London Renee radar bill in Washington State trap travail Harris, Washington State. I’m Dimitri Stanley from Colorado. Rice, Jerry Rice is good. Bread and rice, bread and rice from Colorado Ricky parasol from Arizona State Britton cavi from Utah Jalen red Johnny Johnson from and Micah Pittman, also from Oregon, but I think there’s a little bit of ceiling on those guys. I don’t think those guys are our guys. They’re going to be playing on the next level, for the most part, or if they are, they’re going to be like undrafted free agents, I think for the wide receiver group to take that next step to have some really elite wide receiver groups you’re gonna have to need the bright blue McCoy’s Jalen McMillan’s kukuku was Devin Williams. These are those are the guys at top 55 star rated guys that I think could have the ability to elevate their team’s room and the overall feeling of the conference receivers. That’s my opinion on that group. I think there’s a lot of potential I just don’t think a lot of the guys with the most potential have shown a lot and the guys coming back with production, I just think have a low ceiling. That’s my opinion on that group. Um, so the next the next group I probably look at is I guess Ryan backs um, what is your thoughts overall? Which running backs to you? Like which teams do you think have some some pretty good running backs coming back?
Jack Follman 23:19
Yeah, that’s, uh, I like running back a lot more than the receiver. I think we have some proven commodities that have also have, you know, they have some talent where receiver I feel like we’re kind of looking at a lot of talent, but not like a lot of commodities kind of have more guys who’ve maxed themselves out. I mean, sadly, I love Todd Jordan. I just I thought he was gonna be amazing. I thought he was gonna be that next Utah running back that is big fast. A guy who don’t really see in the PAC 12 these days sadly, as much as he used to. I looking at running backs. I love Max borghi I mean, he he missed a year. Love what he does. I thought he might be a guy who maybe even looked at the NFL but I think he made the right choice coming back. I like Oregon’s combo, actually. Like Travis dye a lot. I mean, obviously he’s not a tie Jordan NFL type guy but I love what he did all year. I thought he he did a great job for Oregon stepping in especially when cJ verdell who was going to be there kind of like I think everyone kind of thought was if he came back didn’t have a good year for whatever reason. Man hamet Colorado I remember started Colorado obviously a ton of production but do we know a Colorado really was I think he’s gonna end up with a lot of preseason you know, first team first team teams like that, but you’re gonna have to really see cuz he’s one of those guys. And that team was on the list of Colorado fans hate me of like, do we know like, what this all means? Yeah, so I’m not sure but I think there’s a lot of like, a lot of like, nice Like b minus running back so we got coming back and like they’re not quite the ride receiver group to where I feel like you’re like these guys were good recruits I see it these are guy but more running backs that flash and add production like Rashard white to Arizona state but I’m like, Is this like gonna be a great running back? Or is it going to be just a guy who’s pretty good. Austin Jones is another one. I’m not really sure. He I liked him as a crew and he had some production but he was not explosive at Stanford. So I would say that with wide receivers a lot of talent that for the most part that haven’t seen anything out of running backs are a lot of guys who are B minuses but are they going to just stay at B minuses? Are they going to or is anyone going to really step up? They’re
Tyler Turner 25:50
like coffin proverbial tixier throw? Oh, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think there Yeah, there’s actually a You’re right. There’s a lot of production like a lot of running backs coming back. So yeah, Travis die CJ for Dell for Oregon. You got Sean with roofer Washington you got Dion Mackintosh, Travis borghi. She’s for Oregon State. You got Austin Jones for Stanford, you have lightened Trayvon for Arizona State. Obviously, the tragedy of Utah, Utah is not really returning much. But they also had TJ Pledger from Oklahoma and Chris curry from LSU transferrin. So those are experienced backs. You have eyeball malla pie. This is Stephen Carr, I think is so played for USC Kennedy. I feel like he’s he hits portal one of these days. But maybe Stephen Carr comes back. You also have kiante Ingram from Texas and transferred into USC. So like you said, You have we have some experience right back put the seat. Yeah, the ceilings not there. I’m trying to fake Sean dollars played a little bit for Oregon. And he’s a guy that might might be a little better than the mean. So he’s a guy to possibly watch out for. Um, other than that, is there any other team that has a running back, I really liked white. He’s an explosive big play guy. I thought he probably he only played in four games, but I thought he was probably the most impressive one that I thought kind of had that next gear that you haven’t seen as often in the PAC 12 in recent years. So he’s probably my favorite coming back. I’m really with you in Colorado, Colorado is a team that they fished for two and they took advantage of, of just the the wonky COVID season. I could totally see it. I’m sorry, I totally did you say their call off and say to you,
Jack Follman 27:43
I think which one the preseason power rankings Colorado like 11. And they were not not pleased. And I just said like, they like their last few games. Like I think that’s the team they were they lost the Utah I think by like 17. And the Texas Team then granted Colorado fans pointed out that Colorado had some players sitting out but Texas like their like 15 best players were like sitting out and they did not look like they belonged in the same field. And so it wasn’t like Oh, they lost by even seven. They were that was like not even like a game. So I’m glad they did what they did. I thought that I thought they showed some nice things. So wins over UCLA and Stanford looked a lot nicer at the end of the season with the way those teams kind of came together a little bit. But I also don’t think they would have beat those teams at the end of the season either. So yeah, but they’re happy with which I think is very fair to put them I might even put the 10th I think I had them above WSU, which I think is totally fair. I think you have to be pretty big. Homer to not agree with that.
a lot of questions coming back.
Tyler Turner 28:50
Yeah, I just I just don’t think they’re right. Yeah, I’m with you on that. I just, I know what their year was and good job for called around for, you know, you took advantage of that short season. And I think he kind of, you know, there was some trepidation about the hire. And I think he kind of like alleviated that a little bit. But moving forwards. I just signed Nazi now with that roster right now. I guess that we’re now sort of covered that. So let’s just cover it off. It’s bland in its totality. Who do you like? What do you like what what particular players do you like center guard offensive tackle? Who do you think has the best group coming back? And guys is a two part question because I think they’re different, in my opinion, have different answers. Maybe you don’t have a different answer. I think there’s I think there’s two superior offensive lines in fact 12 and I think one has more potential but I think another one has been add more production. They have more actually guys that have proven it. But I think what this other offensive line group actually has some guys that I mean, if they played a potential, especially what they were ready to as recruits I think they could be a top 10 in the nation, not just in the back wall. What what’s your overall thoughts in the backdrop and what specific players didn’t stand out to you?
Jack Follman 30:09
Yeah, I don’t want to sound like I’m like a broken record with everything. But I feel like there’s a lot of like, Alright, offensive lines. I have some pieces going back that I like, but there’s no one there’s not going to be like, Oregon two years ago, our, you know, like a USC and USC was rolling or Stanford of the, you know, the heydays. There’s a lot of ones where I feel like okay, I think they’re, they’re all right, but I don’t really know. I think if you had told me to give me like a top one, I don’t even know who that would even be. I I think I almost I was tempted to like Stanford, more than I should have. I might be crazy. Because I really liked what they’re putting together. They have young talent, but Stanford just continually bass for years, it seems like they build up this young talent and it just doesn’t go anywhere. Even on the offensive line. They started a lot of freshmen a couple years ago. Yeah, so there’s no real one that matches up to me with like production and overall talent. Like if like a combo of that, then that’s really proven much to me, to me yet. And I think, like Utah was, was to have a pretty good offense line. And obviously they produced but I mean, their running backs you tied to me as always the running backs. There was a lot of guys of Washington who graded really high. But I when you looked at like the pff side of that, but I didn’t jump up watching them and see like, oh, and I never saw a dominant running game from them. So I don’t really have that much faith in them. So totally just like throwing it out there. I mean, I would probably say I have confidence in like, Utah, Stanford, or maybe Oregon, because I think they put a big emphasis on what they’re gonna do there. If they can get some of the younger, same thing as their receivers. It seems like they have some young talented guys, but you see the guys who are starting and they’re like, these kind of are like the veteran guys who’ve been around for a while. Like, are we going to see like a Jonah town guy or guys like that step up. So that’s kind of it’s kind of a lot of washes for me on the online.
Tyler Turner 32:19
Yeah, so to touch specifically, if you look at just the recruiting rankings, I definitely think the best unit should be Oregon. They have well they sign five star Kinsley to so much Hi, Brandon Walden is a top 100 Guide. And a couple other forge consensus four stars on Jonah tendo was a top 100 guy a couple years ago. Steven Jones is a consensus four star. The number one rated offensive tackle in the nation was Salama movie. Jackson. TJ bass was the number one rated guard his urine coming out of junior college. So from just a baseline perspective, Oregon should have the Batch Group. Now last year is a weird season. And so in they had a lot of elderly upperclassmen. There are a lot of upperclassmen leave obviously for a school officer, the Outland Trophy winner and probably a top 10 draft pick this year he went off he he opted out so I think that impacted a lot of stuff. So their group was just a little bit inconsistent as a unit I don’t think guys individually play well at times I just think as a unit you know, it didn’t know no one no particular unit in in football needs to play better together than the offensive line. It’s just you’re crossing your pole in your cut, you’re blocking down, you’re going over the top and cutting off a linebacker there’s just so many different things that you have to do and have to know that you can be a react there could be one really damn good offensive lineman that’s just dominating. But the other four are kind of all over the place. You’re not going to be a great offensive line as a unit so but I think if Oregon can play to their potential Oregon has potential to be like I said, a top unit not just in the PAC 12 in the nation. They have the guys from just a baseline perspective. Blue Chip guys, they’ve like I said four or five guys or top 100 guys qingzi so much higher it was. So matea was a five star is a five star so they have the guys to play at a really high level will they do it will say some of the best players are really young. That’s always something that needs to be taken into consideration. From a grading standpoint from the Pro Football focus. It is it is Washington. Jackson, Kirkland. Henry Bolivia. I butcher names By the way, so feel free to correct me. I’m Victor Kern. I forgot Luke Walton burger. Enter they have a geyser just very experienced these guys have started to three years these guys have been consistently 70 plus graders and provide pro football focus. And I do understand what you’re saying that they haven’t necessarily looked that may be quite as impactful but I will counter that argument with a little bit of this. Who’s been the running backs? I only Washington’s run games been very effective and the quarterback play hasn’t been great either. And why see replay so it’s maybe not made the offensive line look quite as good as it is. Because the last two years when you look at how is graded as a unit, it’s been the top 10 unit nationally, and they bring back everyone. Um, so I think Washington for just a unit is going to be the best unit coming into the year. And I think they have the ability to be impactful if the skill guys they just need better play from quarterback running back wide receiver tight end they’ve had to play every year. They seem to get good play on tight end, but they use a better play. And I’m all worried about john Donovan as a play caller. Just like I was worried about push him down as a play caller. That’s why he was supposed to got fired out of it, which I thought was a strange hire. And I thought it was only for games. But I didn’t see a difference. It kind of looked like Washington from the year before.
It. That’s the question mark because I think as a unit is really good. Yeah, I think Washington some really good players. Are they big time NFL guys? Probably not. But there’ll be a fall I think Kirkland will be on that for Australia a belavia will be on that full roster. I think Weinberg could get him now for roster. So these are these are good guys. And they’re good players and their experience and I think if they can play like they have last couple years, they can still be a good unit. I just don’t know if the office is gonna be any good big guy give good play out if someone else on that office sidewall. Yeah, you can. Yeah, I
Jack Follman 36:59
think that i think that’s that that’s pretty spot on. I think. Yeah, we’ve kind of had a thing too with a lot of positions were recently in the PAC 12. We’ve had those like bigger recruits come in and they haven’t like as established themselves as much as programs. I kind of hope to hope they were I think that’s kind of like a been a conference wide problem for some of the conferences top teams and you haven’t, you haven’t seen it as much and yeah, I think Washington one thing I did notice and someone random factoid, as someone pointed out that Dylan Morris, I think he got he had like one sack and it was like a one yard loss where he ran out of bounds. And I was like, Whoa, like, I would not have assumed that. So they must be good. They must have done some good past protecting, I would have to say, and they don’t their running backs haven’t been elite. And I would say the same with probably Oregon. I mean, there’s a lot of rebels had a lot of production. Travis died. I loved him as a player. I thought he stepped up and they really needed him this weird year. He was always kind of like the guy who when they really need to play made it But yeah, I think they’re the kind of lack that playmaker running back to that might have made their offensive line look a little bit better last year, because they definitely have the talent. And I think they’re going to have the focus on it, as well. So I think that’s pretty spot on.
Tyler Turner 38:17
Like a couple players for Arizona State. I think the DH
Jack Follman 38:22
Tyler Turner 38:25
Maybe he’s, I think he’s a solid, I saw that. Arizona State is a team that when you look at them, if James Dan has complained to his potential, if some of those young wide receivers can play better, and then you got a good guy to rain, and you got a great guy and white, and he got some salt, that is a team on the offensive side of the ball that they could make noise there. There’s the there’s the guys there that I can see, you know that a new offensive coordinator, the guy from Boise State, they’re a team that maybe you just kind of not mmediately mentioned that I I kind of see is that kind of like let’s just say if there’s if there’s a dark horse team to win the PAC 12 I think it’s actually Arizona state. And that’s why because there was some people on the on that side and also on the offensive side wall, it will touch on the defense that i just i can i can see if they can put it together then having the guys to be a pretty good team next year.
Jack Follman 39:24
Maybe the anti Colorado guy and I could see them being better than what people probably think. And their record suggests and in the weird year, I don’t think they made them. They made the opposite. They made the most they didn’t make the most out of it. And they’re really, really weird. Weird. See, I think they’re a team that could sink but then again, I mean, I think I’ve been saying this about Arizona state for almost 20 years now. Arizona just puts it all together Arizona State, then it goes seven and five, and you’re like well, they’re Arizona state. So
Tyler Turner 39:54
next year. Yeah. So I guess we’re done rolls over. The offensive side of the ball, give me your top three units. So we kind of I think we went over pretty well if you had to pick the top three units in the conference, sorry. Top three top three teams on the offensive side wall which three teams would you pick? We’ve gone through the unit so which three teams? Yeah. Do you think we’ll have the top law offense in the PAC 12? And then I’ll give you my three
Jack Follman 40:25
Yeah, I think Oregon still an easy choice. I think we all their struggles, even with with tire shock didn’t do they were productive. You can’t take that away from them, especially on until the season got pretty late. I think USC they’re still gonna they’re still gonna have what they have. They have some good receivers, they’re gonna put a point. I don’t have to worry about that. I’m going to be a little sneaky with UCLA toward as the season went on, I really they were a team people couldn’t stop and they don’t lose. I don’t think they really lose anything. So those as you said, I think Arizona state’s kind of that dark horse, but I don’t trust them. And I don’t trust him Daniels. I think those three are the ones that I trust. I think no matter what, they’re gonna put up points, you know, USC and UCLA, their defenses might give up 50 points a game. Oregon might have some questions at quarterback, but even the guys who were the veterans who are kind of holding off those four or five star guys, I still think they’re productive. They’re not going to be bad players. For the most part. So yeah, those those three seem pretty easy to me. Yeah.
Tyler Turner 41:28
So just say about UCLA, Oregon, USA. Yeah. I’m going to go Oregon, you they return the 11th most production in the nation. I think it’s 87 is it no 93% production on offense. So that’s that’s a lot. And they had a top 20 offense last year in regards to efficiency in either number 18 as the last had been like 15. So they turn a top 40 offense, they returned 93% of the production. Like I said they signed this class, they signed 12 new chip players, including a five star and five overall top 100 players. So I think talent production, digital Worlds Adrift, terrific offense coordinator. I’ma go Oregon. On number two. I’m a golden state. I do have questions about Jim Dan is as a passer, but he’s still a dynamic athlete. He’s got to do a lot, what I think is one of the most explosive in the nation running backs. And then he was also supposed to back in the PAC 12. And I and I like both the Shelton. I think Wilson is a guy that has some talent. I like some of the wide receiver group. I like pretty personal and he’s a very good wide receiver too. He’s got I keep on forgetting to mention that. I think he was one of the most productive wide receivers in the little bit of play they had. And I think they have some good offensive linemen. So with a pretty solid offensive lines, dynamic running backs and solid receivers and a quarterback that I think will be able to do some good stuff. I think they’ll have a top three offense in the PAC 12. And then we’re going to I think UCLA reback a three year starter in Darian Thompson Robin said, Britton Brown is a good running back. He also brings Zack carbonate who transferred from Michigan, I think he’s a guy that’s going to add that to the offense. powerfulness is one of the better wide receivers in the conference. And then Greg Dodge, I think doltish credit is our privilege. Adult is one of the best tight ends and we used to replicate again, like 200 yards against USC. So and I think they’re really good offensive line, they returned back a lot of stars in the offensive line, and a lot of guys that graded pretty hard so and chip does a great color, say what you want about him, and he’s not necessarily had the results that black people thought he would. But he still got gray color. He knows how to do tempo, and it’s DB and they got some yards and they got some points and people this year. So I agree with you, boy is the only difference we have you depict Arizona State. I’m really but as you can tell, I’m just not feeling USC this year, and it boils out. I don’t think they have a good offensive line. They’ve lost by far the best offensive lineman and Elijah Tucker. I know. all their other returning starters in their offensive line are the lowest graded by pro football focus offensive lineman in the conference center returning so we’re returning a bunch of low graded players that I do not think played very well. They haven’t recruited the offensive line very good. I don’t think they’ve got much out of the run game. I don’t love Graham Harrell, as a guy that the ability to mix the run in the past, he’s kind of a past happy offensive coordinator. I think that’s also part of the struggle with getting the offensive line to play down the older kind of always playing playing up. So then we have to turn the play down hill. I just don’t think it’s very effective. I don’t think the running backs have been that talented. I think that necessarily printed that little deposition. I think it’s going to kind of be the same kind of offense. It’s going to rely on Kim slovis hitting some plaisirs receivers and I just don’t know This team’s even as good don’t they there’s good in an offensive line and so I yeah i’m not i’m not buying that as a top three I don’t even know why is the top five off individual this year I probably take Utah for them if Washington Washington could figure something out I can’t a Washington they said I’m looking at nothing off since I probably did Washington State Nick rolovich I like the Lord like bourgie like this to Harris and the other receiver So yeah, I probably did Washington state for sure. Actual couple So anyways, Oregon, US UCLA and Arizona State on their top three so let’s head to the defensive side of the ball to finish this off. What is what which what defensive line group would kind of be your what players you like which groups do you like? We like on the defensive side does offensive line?
Jack Follman 45:56
Yeah, I like some of the usual suspects as units like Washington, Utah, Oregon. I like throw USD in there a little bit in the mix. Maybe Arizona State might be a little sneaky. Washington’s one where I mean sign two cola for two he just had it in the four games he got for the most part just had a crazy crazy year. And then they have a lot of young talent at defensive tackle. Who are they they they’ve can develop people those guys just have to kind of step in because they lost a couple guys without doubt two were veteran guys who were also in that Utah they don’t have a bunch of names but kind of they just never stop with the same kind of guys and just being lights out they just there any year where no one could defend the run Utah somehow managed to defend the run it was amazing. And I didn’t have like the star load to lay like named players that I’m like, getting this point on but they they know what they’re doing obviously I mean, yeah, Alabama and do these other than Alabama Who else could stop the run this year at times and Utah could in Oregon. I throw them with Washington, I think they have some young guys they have they really have to figure it out. They have some young guys up there. They’re bringing in a defensive on the defensive line. I mean, Thibodeau is obviously who he is but I think they have to figure out how to defend the run before you know he’s a third down and long guy he’s not gonna he’s not a defensive tackle so if they but they have the talent to do it. Those are the groups that I like after that Arizona state as a couple guys that are sneaky are going to be all Pac 12 type guys but might be more pass rusher types so yeah, I think Washington and Utah and Oregon Are they the easy choices on the D line side and after that everyone else is kind of just shifting in different spots.
Tyler Turner 47:50
Well, how’s your breakdown? Um, I everyone was very impressed with the defensive line play for everyone this year. I thought overall the defensive lines across the conference for pretty bad not not a lot of effective pass rushers. I honestly thought UCLA had one of the better. I like that I can do what’s the gentleman’s name? He was a
defensive tackle for dig. dig into it.
Yeah, man. How do you how do you learn how to say these days? I like him. Like
Jack Follman 48:21
it’s so hard with an entire conference to kind of lock it here but I would not it’s also sometimes, I mean, the same thing but like transfers and stuff like yours. I’ll put stuff out there and be like that backup defensive tackle like transferred out like like last week. I’m sorry, I forgot about the Colorado backup defensive tackle. Only on the message board that anyone knows that he’s not in the team anymore. For Yeah, pronouncing players. It’s hard with Oh,
Tyler Turner 48:51
well, I’m a Midwest guy. I’m sorry to be honest. Yeah. in the Midwest the names are Erickson Johnson Nelson Wilson.
That’s the Yeah, yeah.
What I’m not used to the west coast Toluca Lake VA to eat like I just said those names are very common up here. Oh, so that’s what I think that’s probably my pub. Oh, yeah. I agree. If I were gonna say and I kind of when you said Utah did it last all their starting dl but I thought as a whole did their dl was probably the best offensive line. It’s Mike tougher off. I think he was a second highest graded defensive lineman the conference and then a couple other guys I can’t really remember offhand, but I think they were probably the most consistent of a deal unit. And if I trust her coaching, I trust how they analyze the talent that they have, and they’re able to develop it so I probably would leave them zTf obviously was just terrific. as a whole the Washington off defensive line. I was a little disappointed with the guys that Jacob bandas I might even try the guy’s name. He was it. He was a recruit from Hawaii. He was top 50 guy their top like band. This was the top 100 guy and they’re high, highly regarded high high recruits coming out of high school but I didn’t see them last year be very productive and I didn’t think they necessarily were very impactful. Seville’s balls I think played plays a little bit of edge too. I didn’t see him do a lot. So I Washington has the pieces there. I just didn’t really see it. So I played four games. And to be honest with you Oregon’s defensive line did not play while they had got dad a lot of very experienced guys come in and they just want to play in simple they just weren’t very good. Kid on tibideaux is always a very solid player. Brandon doorless sophomores coming back. I think he’s a pretty good player, but I didn’t say last year. Can they come back? Do they have the talent? Yes. But I have a hard time putting Oregon up there just because I had saved last year. I just didn’t think it was good yet at all. I thought it was their worst shooting on tape. Well, safety was pretty bad too. But um, it was just a Tyler Johnson’s a solid player. If another guy Yep. Yeah, yep. He’s a solid player. We have another guy. No, that’s it. But then we had a couple guys and I felt like it’s the adrenal. I thought they were were decent. Mustapha Johnson from Colorado. He’s I believe he’s coming back. he’s a he’s a pretty good player for Colorado. But you kind of got to pick players here and bear. Yeah, Isaac Hodgins is not a terrible player for Oklahoma for himself, say for Oregon State to Louis to put to Louis to loop to from USC is has the potential. Brad Johnson from callus and potential was another guy that’s not it’s like it literally is you pick like a guy from each unit that can be not a bad player, but as a take of each unit across the board. I mean, even like USC at Marlin, global Brandon P. Pa. And to Louie I’m terrible. I you know, I’m trying to say but they will. I mean, though you could think that they would all those every Marlins probably going to be a date to kind of pick in the Draft. But I just didn’t see USC consistently on a play by play basis be really impactful and effective of the defensive line. So yeah, Gordon next year, I you know, if you’re going to ask me who I’d take out to Utah, because I trust the coach, and I trust the development, I trust the deal get guys that play to their potential. I just there’s no one else I could trust. I can’t trust Oregon right now. Or Washington. I just didn’t see it from from, from the guys that they had the roster. I just didn’t see it on a last season. And I was not a huge fan of Washington actually hired and they promoted a graduate assistant to their dl code. And I thought that was kind of a unique move. I don’t know if I agree with that today but Jimmy Lee kind of runs a defensive he’s a very good defensive mind so maybe that’ll work out for them but I’ll probably go Utah linebackers now this nice little area What do you think what linebackers come back?
Jack Follman 53:23
Yeah, we have some solid units coming back across the board really different than the D line where I feel like yeah, just like there’s some names out there. I’ve kind of settled with the offensive line before it’s like there’s some guys are like on certain teams, but I don’t really like any hole units. linebackers, different they have some good there’s some good linebackers. I I you see a laser was a little sneaky to me. As Mitchell gudi and Caleb Johnson who was like a force as the season went on, Arizona state’s another sneaky one. They have a lot of talent there. they’ve they’ve they’ve seen players step up Utah. Devin Lloyd might be the best linebacker in the conference. And he like the like the D line Utah’s like I trust her. I trust her coaches. I trust what they do. They just plug in and they’d seem to be able to do it. Oregon no school is going to be a monster. Clearly, Justin flow who was hurt last year is going to be interesting to see how they’re going to bring him and then they have a nice little mix of some veterans in there as well. Those are the ones like Oregon State I think had some interesting players at linebacker. Those are going to be the ones to watch. I like Washington as one linebacker like at a fondue full show. But other than that they’re kind of a giant question mark. So yeah, like I think UCLA is going to be a sneaky one. But Utah I would say the same thing as dieline. I don’t they don’t have a bunch of household names, but they have one guy that you can really trust to probably to mean has a good chance to be the best linebacker and out The conference nafees tool Noah yet another tool is another name to throw in there so yeah, you talk to me it’s going to be like the line the clear choice to be number one than that I kind of think UCLA Arizona state are sneaky than Oregon’s gonna have a lot of young talent that’s probably going to sneak up there to them to put the rest of them and then everybody else has kind of there’s players here there that you like them that you don’t trust a whole unit
Tyler Turner 55:30
Yeah, I mean, I just think there’s like the thing is defensive line you can have one good way I guess an edge guy can make a really big difference if he’s getting after the quarterback class the quarterback an edge guy can be really impactful. linebacker one really good linebacker like I did really think fuccillo for Washington i thought was a very I thought he played he looked really good. I think he’s a former walk on if I’m not mistaken. Yeah. And and is Ryan Bowman playing outside backer received playing the edge.
Jack Follman 56:05
I feel like he’s kind of a hybrid. I mean, in a day and age where it’s really hard to define who what what it is, but he is and I think he’s back for another guy who’s back for like a six year and he’s
Tyler Turner 56:17
a good player. Yeah, when he’s healthy. So if you know if ushio and Bowman playing back there and you also got small Savelle smalls, who’s a former five star you know, and zTf off the edge if they can play to that potential. That’s a pretty good front seven right there. Hey, I think the question with Washington it is in the interior but I like them even more I think is terrific. I think the five folds very terrific. So I think you’re right i think Utah is a very solid linebacker unit. No one’s told Justin Florida could get much higher rated most you guys that’s a couple five stars right there. Oh, you also got Mesa funa former top 100 guy and it’s not official, but I believe there’s pretty good chance that Oregon lands Henry todo todo from Tennessee so bases that he’s not committed yet. But if he does land there, he actually doesn’t matter. He probably lands at USC so he’s gonna probably good be good. He’s probably gonna immediately be one of the top three linebackers. Yeah, back to off. And he’s probably going to back 12 from what I hear at least. Have you heard that?
Jack Follman 57:23
I’d only really heard like Oregon for the most part. Yeah, yeah. To me. No question. It would probably be between him and Devin Lloyd with the best linebacker coming backwards wherever he signs.
Tyler Turner 57:33
I mean, here’s all the total goes to say hypothetically in Oregon. You got him no soul, Justin flow and Mesa funa. That’s a darn good. Yeah, that’s pretty good. Right there. On a The only other one would be Devin Boyd ni fi so for Devin Lloyd and ni fi school. And like I said Washington have a fuccillo Bowman you got smalls you also got Daniel human Lily. I don’t know he’s his he did he play March last year.
Jack Follman 58:02
And he was mostly a special teams guy. But he was a big time
Tyler Turner 58:05
he had his teammates with Tony total. I believe in high school if I’m not mistaken.
Jack Follman 58:09
I think he did. Melo Park one. African.
Tyler Turner 58:14
I was he was if he Okay, so Toronto.
Jack Follman 58:19
Palawan. It’s like that. Troy Frankland same high scoring that one.
Tyler Turner 58:23
Yeah. Okay. No African. Okay. So, they played the same conference, so they were rivals. They’re not teammates, they’re rivals. There’s still gonna be rivals. But anyways, so I think a lot will roll I mean, if he he’s gonna land in the background pretty, pretty sure. But he’s for buy something so he will make someone really good. So right now, I would probably say Utah, I’d agree with you, Washington and Oregon I think have a lot of potential. And then it goes on to say Rowan Robertson I think they have some solid players. Nate lamb and I believe it has to recover from Achilles injury. He’s a very good player, but an Achilles injury is very tough to heal up from I don’t know if he’ll be ready. Avery Roberts is a solid linebacker for Oregon State. I think they also got another guy don’t they have that? Almost likes added to grumps, too. Yep.
Unknown Speaker 59:21
Tyler Turner 59:22
So so that so they have a salt data solid group that would probably consider Oregon State kind of underrated. So I’ll probably go Utah, Oregon, Washington with potential I don’t love USC. Can I my my GPA is Dave’s. He played very well against Oregon and he get one of the highest grades but pro football focus for any linebacker in the season. But that was his one good game. It was really unusual. He really wasn’t very good. The other five games. I didn’t think raylan Golf Earth was very good. Assistant. I do have some high rated guys a guy like pi guy, I’d say. He transferred out Yeah, that was a top 15 player coming out of high school so and then they had Drake Jackson. I guess Drake Jackson’s kind of an edge linebacker type guy. I didn’t think he played really well last year though. No,
Jack Follman 1:00:18
I was shocked I kind of forgotten him at the end of the season. I was like, wait, I thought he was gonna and I loved him as a freshman I thought he was amazing. Either next big time you know 383 years and now great guy Ed’s player guy but he he was a complete afterthought this year shocking. He
Tyler Turner 1:00:39
lost like 30 pounds and kind of moved from an edge to like an outside linebacker and I just don’t that I think he was better on the edge with more weight on it. Yeah, I just think that suits the disabilities better so yeah, so I guess I’ll go Utah Washington Oregon with a kind of a dark horse being Oregon State to be honest with you on the other units I Jihad was a solid player for Washington state but I’m not seeing as a whole there you know a guy here and there. You can make a difference but as a unit I’ve ranked us okay let’s move to defensive backs. We like their quarterback safety. What players do you like what groups do you like?
Jack Follman 1:01:21
Yeah, I I like Trent McDuffie, a Washington a cornerback. I like McCullough right. I think he wasn’t he didn’t he was not a Drake Jackson. But I thought he was gonna have a bigger impact this year than I think he ended up having but and I like how much Cal Oregon has it that unit. I don’t think there’s a huge standout unit this year, I think just kind of goes into one of those ones air where we kind of have a lot with some nice players and pieces, but there’s no outstanding you know, Arizona state could be sneaky. I think they got Evan fields than jack Jones, I believe is going to do is like seventh tour in the PAC 12 or whatever he’s doing. And then there are other cornerback i think is I was surprised to he came back doing a blank right now. Case, Lucas Yeah, I was kind of surprised. He came back so they could sneak up on you. But we’re going to Washington, I think they’ve accumulated a lot of talent at those spots over the years. So they’re ones to watch and obviously KB Lake, they put an emphasis on, you know, defending the past and I know you said Oregon safeties were bad last year, but I think they have enough talent there. I think the same thing is there some of their spots where there was weirdness, and they’ll have guys who come in and I think put it together this year with enough of that talent. So yeah, really like Arizona State, Washington and Oregon. Kind of the usual suspects. I would throw Utah in there as well. I don’t know they didn’t may have. Who’s the guy that they brought in the freshmen? It was a big roll ups or flops. Yeah, they had some nice players, I think they’re probably going to step up and I trust them. So those are kind of the units that that I really see stepping up around the PAC 12 I think Oregon or Washington or two, that should be the best because I think they brought in a lot of talent and they have kind of a little bit of a pedigree for definitely for Washington. I mean, Oregon, I think is get in there with the talent they’re bringing in and I wouldn’t be surprised if they make a big step next year by ASU, Oregon Washington.
Tyler Turner 1:03:22
Yeah, I mean, I I really like yeah, washed. It’s hard to argue Jimmy life’s gonna have good DBS lies there. Trump Adelphi is probably the best cover guy in the conference column. Gordon’s a freak Yeah, it’s an experienced guys and Cameron Williams and a PSA Turner and I think it’s is it Hampton the other corner you’ve got who’s got some good plays along Dude, I I try I trust that Washington is gonna be a pretty good unit next year. You USC has some people chrissteele former top 50 guy max Williams as a consensus four star Isaac Paloma. I was it’s been a two three year starter you’re bringing in some young guys who are pretty highly touted Sierra right from in there. Los Angeles is a very highly regarded kid on profit Brown, who was a consensus four star guy that was recruited by pretty much every big program. They got the guys you see just I do have question always. What are you going to get from them? Where are you going to get consistency? Are you going to get guys to even you know, like Elijah Griffin who headed off to NFL he’s a guy that at times is good but times inconsistent. So other than Tylenol a fun guy it’s kind of hard to see kids see consistency from USC. Oregon was not impressed with with the Oregon DBS early this year. Um, obviously if you can tell it’s not very impressive that they did. I didn’t think their safeties are very good degree. pretty horrible on a per play basis like pro football focus. I do think roll McKinley is a solid player he’s coming back he’s a two year starter bet waves is a guy that didn’t play early a lot. Junior College all American. I think he will be better next year. They also bring Brian Addison a wide receiver former top 100 guy he’s gonna go over to the safety position. So he’s the guy over there. That guy to watch out for is Jamal Hill who was the PAC 12 Defensive Player of the Week for the PAC 12 championship game performance. I think he’s probably the one with the highest ceiling I think he’s a pretty good player. He had got his feet wet who was a true sophomore he was not going to start going into the air is going to be jevin all and was one of the best nickel backs in college football and he early on he made some mistakes but the last couple games he was pretty good and I think he’s gonna be a pretty good player and then it’s okay all right, McHale right is one of the corners in the back wall. He’s the guy Oh, probably day to pick him adelphia ticker day two picks probably to join in next year’s draft. So get him he can really run just like Duffy the thing that McDuffie right can do is run and if you can run your that project an advantage obviously at that position. So if you mentioned Arizona State, Chase Lucas jack Jones, Evan fields, I think that’s a pretty solid group. I like that group. And I like Clark Phillips and I like vontae Davis, and Utah has some solid directives. Yeah, I probably are gonna pick a top three I Washington one. Other ones it’s just kind of question marks. I don’t know. Washington’s the best group in my opinion.
Jack Follman 1:06:45
He’s got some talent kids.
Tyler Turner 1:06:48
Yeah, they do. Definitely the talent are they gonna play to it?
Jack Follman 1:06:50
You trust Utah? Utah. I like Oregon’s corners. But safety is such a question mark Arizona State I feel like is trustworthy for what they have. I don’t think they’re gonna be like, nationally relevant, but I feel like there’s enough experience proven there to be like that to maybe Utah is up there. So I kind of like Colorado I’m trying to they might know some weird senior guys who are coming back they don’t know about but I think they had Colorado with some surprise talent and their their secondary as well. I think Cal last loses their best players at the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah,
Tyler Turner 1:07:25
we’re measuring cow on our
Jack Follman 1:07:28
palate was weird. I mean, if you want to take your word for the weirdest season, it’s definitely cow. I think a lot of people had high hopes for them. Me included. They just, I assume I think COVID hit them in a weird way that just made it so they weren’t as good as they should have been. But maybe people were overvaluing certain things about them. And it was a year when you need to have offense if you’re going to win college football anywhere. And they just don’t have much offense. So I don’t really know what what what do we have to score people? You can’t win every game, you know, like 17 to 14 in 2020. It was very hard so bad year.
Tyler Turner 1:08:07
Yeah. Oh, yeah, I agree with you. Um, so if you’re gonna take the top three units in the back 12 defensively? Which take who would who would be your top three? so tough. I’ve given seniors top three teams who’d be your top three defensive teams in the PAC 12 Utah’s no question.
Jack Follman 1:08:26
They’re the one only one I trust Washington as he kind of went across the board that they have good pieces everywhere. Going on total potential. I’m probably gonna go Oregon again. Because as you said, Yeah, inside interior there D line was a disaster last year in safety, but there’s not much to go from here. So it’s like you kinda have to be like, with the PAC 12 a lot a year like Oregon’s getting a lot of points for potential because you look at other teams, and you’re like, well, if everything goes right, what are they going to be and you’re like, Alright, they’re going to be like a b minus, well, if everything goes right for Oregon, they’re going to be a better than that. So I give them the benefit of the doubt. I think COVID was weird for everyone and I think I would assume whatever COVID did to me it seemed to destroy the ability for teams to be able to defend the run across the board unless you’re Utah nationally to it’s no one could defend the run so I’ll give some people’s a mulligan on that. And I’ll go with talent So yeah, those are probably the three to me and I think Oregon a linebacker especially they bring in toto is linebacker cornerback, which are pretty pretty. And obviously defensive end. One defensive end, I guess. But they had they have some nice pieces there so that I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt to slip them in kind of that third spot.
Tyler Turner 1:09:46
Yeah, I think Utah you just have to trust them. Morgan scalli and Kyle winningham just his teams have always been very solid. They don’t have much blue chip guys, but they’re just they’re just a solid defense of water. 10 I think under Jimmy like you can pretty much guarantee that Washington’s always gonna have pretty solid. I think it’s the questions right now on Rossington. Definitely line the offensive side of the ball. And then yeah, I mean if you let’s say let’s say hypothetically here you toto toto goes to Oregon Oregon blue chip competes with anyone nationally then when it comes to just you have a five former five star and came on tibideaux you got top 50 guy in five star and flow five star in seul. Top 100 guy total top 100 guy food top 50 guy right? I mean you have as much blue chip talent is anywhere almost. I didn’t see last year. But we’re here. They have a new defensive coordinator, Tim Neruda, who’s been very good everywhere he’s been he was great at Cal with a lot less talent. He was very good at Air Force good at Ohio. He’s short stint under Sherman at Texas a&m. He was solid. So I would I guess I’d go them it’s going to be them or USC and I and USC, I just think there’s too many question marks in a defensive line. Too many question marks in their linebacker group. And they’re too defensive back group is their most talented unit. But even there, you’re losing talent no longer who is the best player, the best safety in college football and the best defensive player in the PAC 12. And that’s just hard to replace. And there’s guys that have talent. But what I’ve seen them play, they’ve been a little inconsistent. I just think they’re, there’s holes on USC, there’s some portions of their team that I just don’t think are like, most of the time, it’s been with USC coaching. I mean, they have all these blue chip guys and like how can you not have them play better? Well, I actually think this year’s team, there is some talent issues at certain positions. I don’t think they have great defensive linemen, they sign Porter foreman, I think he’ll be a good player, but he’s one guy, and he’s a true freshman. Other than that, who do they really have? It’s a really talented defensive lineman. Um, same with linebacker position. Drake, Jackson was a good and if they move drew Jackson back the D line, and they have too good D lineman, but then who do they have a linebacker on so so they just have some like question marks on that team. So yeah, I agree with you. I’ll go Washington, Utah, and it’d be just based on talent. Even if it all went toe to toe, they still have a very talented defense. I’ll go Oregon, but Oregon was not impressive defensively. Last year, there were there were not even a middle middle of the road defense in the backfield. Barely. And yeah, so I think we kind of agree on that. So since we both have to wrap up here in a second, so I’m gonna give you put your feet to the fire for people who are going into next year, who broke down multi units. Top three teams, if you had to, as of today, top three teams that you could bank on? Being I think there’s three or four top 25 teams in the PAC 12 next year, who they be as of right now, you can say more you can say three, four, takes the top 25 team right now, who do you think you who can you comfortably say? You say well not only start off in the top 25 but we’ll probably end off in the top 25
Jack Follman 1:13:17
I think Oregon’s the one guarantee that you know, they’re going to be ranked up high I think as USC the other one, which has we both think don’t agree, but they’re going to be those are the only two I feel nationally for talking about kind of perception that are guaranteed the top 25 If you ask me, I think Oregon’s locked to be a top 25 team in my eyes. There’s just too much talent to not have something there and they have options a quarterback. Washington to me. They’re sneaky. I think they could be a top 25 team. I think they should be given what they showed in a weird year. still kind of question marks, but I think they are I think they should be ahead of USC. Arizona State is the other sneaky one that i think i think you point out and I like what their coaching staff has done to what they were doing down there and you throw in a little wrinkle kind of like that thing we talked about in Oregon of they have some young recruits that I think people don’t realize that people who really follow recruiting out west are going to be like at a few spots. Arizona State has like a nice veteran core. They have some pieces good cooking stuff, and they could sneak up on people. Those are the ones so let’s say we’re going to Washington USC are kind of like the proven. They’re going to be ranked most likely. Maybe not Washington, though, nationally. They’re going to be up there. And then there’s a whole cluster of like other teams that I’m like, there’s things to like like Utah would throw in there as well because like you trust them nationally and people do enough but they’re kind of like sneaky in there. UCLA is a little sneaky. There, especially as the year went on then ASU, I think that ASU UCLA, Utah little like pack One of those teams is going to break out. And I think, if not two of them, because I feel like Utah is just Utah, and they’re going to be they’re going to be solid, and they should be hovering around the top 25. So bring it down long story short, Arizona state of UCLA, I think one of them sneaks up on people. And I think UCLA, as you said, their ability to score points, if they can replicate what they did last year. It’s going to be hard to stop them from scoring. And that’s just hard to not win some football games for UCLA. So I think those are kind of the top 10 the top 25 ish teams.
Tyler Turner 1:15:36
Yeah, I mean, you explained pretty good. I don’t have very much disagreement with it. I think that actually the PAC 12. South i think is better next year. Like even like you mentioned, I think Arizona State, Utah, USC and UCLA. I think those four teams, I think there’s a lot of parody, I think you could definitely be 758 and force eight and 493. I could. That’s actually probably my prediction. If I was going to predict who comes out on top and I think I already did it did some preseason poll. I did a prediction on here. For some reason, I think this might be the year I think there’s enough on the offensive side of the ball and the pensive side of the ball. I think Arizona State ends up on top but you know when we talk through Utah is pretty solid on that defensive side of the ball on all three levels. If they can get enough out of Charlie Brewer and these new running backs. That’s that’s close between those two and even UCLA with that good offense. I don’t like enough of UCLA defensively, so I can see them losing too many games 40 to 35. And I don’t trust Chip Kelly is that winning season yet at UCLA, so I just not trusting them enough. And I guess he’s gonna be a disappointing I think this ultimately will be quite Hilton’s last year, so I’m just gonna put that one out there for the university here. And then I think the North is really Oregon, Washington. Those are the two best teams. I’m the reason why I would go Oregon, I just think they’re better offensively. Um, at the end of the day, college football is journey to the game that you have to score points. It’s tough to beat people 17 1321 to 17. It’s just tough. You have to be able to score some points, and I don’t trust them offensively. I haven’t seen enough out of any of the skill positions quarterback tight end wide receiver running back, that I just don’t see them being a dynamic offense. I have not seen it. So I’ve not seen it. They have some talent. But some of the talent that I’ve seen play hasn’t played to the level. Ray spiker was a top 100 guy hardly done anything. Austin Auburn was on consensus four star hardly has done anything. We’ll see what Romana dazu and Jalen McMillan are made of, but I don’t trust their offense. So that’s why I lean Oregon, in the north. So yeah, that’s my only prediction. I think it kind of goes live obviously when you’re picking most of the best units on for those teams. Probably those are gonna be the teams that that play. I I don’t you know, you could who knows what you could see out of Washington State, Arizona State cow. I’m in the north and then in the south, there’s dimension Colorado, Arizona could be a dark horse when it Ah. You know, I don’t hate what Jed fish is doing for his coaching staff, though.
Jack Follman 1:18:28
Hey, yeah, I mean, just kind of funny. bit like, you know, some of these up and coming programs seem to be doing much more coaching moves in Washington is?
Tyler Turner 1:18:38
Jack Follman 1:18:39
I don’t know what’s going on there.
I don’t know what’s going on there. Maybe they’re giving up on? I think they’re they’re giving up on football in some ways. So yeah. Don’t Arizona. There’s not much open, but at least they’re making moves. You know, I think USC and Washington are programs that just, you know, seem to get in their own way a lot. And maybe Arizona can figure out a way a Colorado can figure out a way not to do that.
Tyler Turner 1:19:04
Yeah, I agree with you. That’s why you say that because Arizona you know, Don Brown. He’s been a top 10 defensive coordinator for years. Bruschi as part of their staff, I mean, that’s it. That’s an interesting hire guy with a lot of experience. Jet is just so good at good. Hi, Jimmy Doherty. I think that a decent he’s been a guy that’s been around for a while. There’s been some solid hire. So and I agree with you, Washington. Washington had kind of an interesting defensive coordinator move. I just, I thought that was but I mean, like is the court is the defensive line so I don’t really worry that much. But I really didn’t like Donovan last year in the office. I just did not get that higher. Especially when your biggest rival goes in hires Joe Morehead. I mean, he took over from that was the guy when when Donna got fired at Penn State Morehead was the one that turned them into a top five offense. I just that was one of the things funnier like literally hired the guy that got fired below as well dude is awesome talking man, I’m gonna head out again. Yeah, have you come on again we can chitchat talk about I’m always downtime Pac 12 I’m excited. I just want the PAC 12 more than anything to get back to, you know, just being really relevant. And, and how that starts by winning big games. That’s why Washington beaten Michigan, Oregon beaten Ohio State, which will be very tough in Ohio State. Um, I don’t know who else is in the early season games. But those are the first two I can think of, and then making the college football playoff. Making it Yeah, being competitive. Yeah, that’s just my goal for the back robot. And I think i think i think Oregon probably is a team that I think has a roster that has a capability, they play up to their potential most likely to make it. But Washington has some good pieces, they just have to get more out of their offense, and USC, if they ever get a really good coach in there, they can go back to contending for college football playoff spots, and consistently being a national champion. But until they do that, it’s just really hard. I mean, they quarter the team talent composite six years last six years to composite started in 2015. USC has had the best roster per baseline talent, six straight years. And they’ve won one Pac 12 title, that’s all one and it had one top 10 finish. I just coach that has had that much talent is not utilize it in the way that it has utilized it in the way he has. It’s just not been many times very impactful. He’s had five and seven, eight and five years with that talent. I just I just don’t know how he’s gonna turn around. I’m just surprised. He’s still the head coach to be honest with you. So yeah, God, last words, man, before we head off, uh, not too much. I
Jack Follman 1:22:11
mean, we’re going on that point. I mean, I it’s cliche, you kind of hate but until USC starts to be USC, it’s going to be hard for the conference as a whole to really, you know, even back and we were talking earlier about the early 2000 10s in Oregon and Stanford for flying as much as you possibly can. But you need the USC to kind of even back then and what if USC would have been? How as good as they should have been? How impressive would the conference have been? And, yeah, we need that. I mean, Oregon needs to fill potential. Washington needs to get fulfilled potential a little bit and then get those AppStore programs like Arizona State and you know, to fill fulfill their potential, and we’ll be back to, you know, having more fun national relevance to watch and hopefully not losing almost every big recruit from the western region, other conference to Ohio State, Clemson and Alabama. And we’ll be we’ll be having more fun, and that’ll that’ll be great.
Tyler Turner 1:23:08
And at least if they do leave the transfer portal their way back afterwards.
Jack Follman 1:23:14
You’re seeing that? A little bit of that. Yeah, you’re seeing a little bit of that. And I think we’re continuing to see a lot of that. I mean, I’m a West Coast guy born and raised, I lived up and down the coast. And it’s interesting to see all these guys leave and go out to these places, even if it’s for three or three to four or five years. I’m interested in seeing how now we’re seeing so many leave if how many are gonna end up coming back. So hopefully, hopefully we get some more to stay.
Tyler Turner 1:23:41
Yeah, surprise it. Yeah. Cuz it’s from the west coast to what do you have you ever had a desire to veer out? Or you’re like, I’m good?
Jack Follman 1:23:48
No, I mean, I’ve pretty much I went from Washington State to LA and I’ve pretty much you know, I’ve only visited a little bit back east and to the south and the Midwest a bit, but I think it’d be pretty hard for me to leave if nothing else in sports are really late around really late. Midwest, I go to bed early sometimes. So yeah, it’s I wish I could hack that more than anything.
Tyler Turner 1:24:15
No. Yeah. I mean, I remember when I lived out there just threw me off because my whole life I was living in the Midwest and in the south. And I was all of a sudden. It’s like college football at nine in the morning. It’s wild. Yeah.
Jack Follman 1:24:28
I feel games at 10am. Yeah, it’s it’s nice. If you want to get to bed early, though.
Tyler Turner 1:24:32
That’s kind of cool. I actually I did I got used to it. I was like, Oh, yeah. Yeah, I’d have to wait till one like in the solid. It’s really bad. Like I live in the southeast. So it was like one o’clock for 12 one o’clock for NFL 12 for college football and halftime. The games aren’t any good. So the games that are really good are like at nine o’clock at night. Yep. Like oh
Unknown Speaker 1:24:57
Tyler Turner 1:24:59
I did well Thanks for coming on. And I will have you on again we can talk, you know, Prior to the season talking about how the seasons gonna go.
Jack Follman 1:25:09
Appreciate it. Yeah, great time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Santiago Leon is the Founder and CEO of the Sports Cast. He covers NFL, NBA, and world soccer. He’s also founder of sleon productions, which he specializes in technology and serves clients with solutions to make their business grow.